Herb Wagner

Opportunistic Value Investor at Finepoint Capital

Claims

As speaker

Mentioned in

Key positions and views

The Japanese government is the most significant activist investor in its own country, creating a multi-year opportunity for fundamental stock-pickers as corporate reforms continue to unfold.

Traditional value investing is an outdated strategy due to technological disruption; a modern approach must focus on specific catalysts and structural market inefficiencies.

The private credit market is currently a crowded and unattractive asset class that has not yet been tested through a major recessionary credit cycle.

A major investment opportunity in the credit markets is forthcoming in the next 3-5 years, and patience is required to preserve capital until it arrives.

Significant mispricings can be found in niche markets subject to structural pressures, such as the Florida reinsurance market post-Hurricane Ian or certain Asian derivatives.

Podcast consensus on Wagner

Points of consensus

▶Herb Wagner consistently argues that Japan's government-led corporate governance reform, initiated in 2014-2015, is a primary driver for a long-term investment opportunity in the country's equity market.Apr 2026

▶He maintains a consistent view that current credit markets offer poor risk-adjusted returns due to tight spreads and reduced liquidity, leading his firm to hold historically low exposure.Apr 2026

▶Wagner repeatedly asserts that traditional value investing strategies, based on simple metrics like price-to-book, have become ineffective over the last decade due to rapid technological disruption.Apr 2026

▶He consistently points to structural market changes, such as the 90% decline in dealer capital and the rise of passive investing, as key sources of opportunity for active, fundamental investors.Apr 2026

Points of debate

▶Wagner highlights the tension in the Japanese market between its significant investment potential from reforms and the considerable geopolitical risk posed by a potential China-Taiwan conflict.Apr 2026

▶He presents a debate around Japan's sovereign debt, acknowledging its high 250% debt-to-GDP ratio but arguing it is manageable when accounting for the central bank's holdings.Apr 2026

▶Wagner contrasts the widespread popularity and capital inflows into the private credit asset class with his view that it is untested in a full credit cycle and currently too competitive.Apr 2026

▶He identifies a conflict between the institutional bias and past negative experiences that deter investors from Japan, versus the fundamental, ongoing improvements in corporate behavior he observes.Apr 2026

Key themes

▶The Japanese Corporate Governance RevolutionApr 2026

Wagner posits that Japan is undergoing a profound, multi-year transformation driven by government-mandated corporate governance reforms. He views the government as the 'biggest activist investor' and believes the trend is still in its early-to-middle stages, creating a fertile ground for active stock pickers to find undervalued companies embracing change.

This theme suggests that the primary alpha opportunity in Japan is not a macro bet on the country, but a micro-level, fundamental analysis of which companies are genuinely adopting reforms to unlock shareholder value.

▶Patient and Opportunistic Credit InvestingApr 2026

Wagner describes a highly disciplined, counter-cyclical approach to credit. He believes current conditions are unattractive due to tight spreads, abundant capital, and reduced market liquidity, but he confidently predicts a major opportunity will arise from a future downturn within three to five years.

Investors following this theme would prioritize capital preservation in the current environment, while building a watchlist and preparing to deploy capital aggressively when market dislocations occur.

▶Exploiting Structural Market MispricingsApr 2026

Wagner's strategy focuses on identifying and capitalizing on inefficiencies caused by structural market factors rather than just temporary sentiment. Examples include the dramatic repricing of Florida reinsurance risk after Hurricane Ian and purchasing Asian derivatives at deep discounts due to hedging pressure from other funds.

This approach requires a specialized skillset to analyze complex market structures and niche asset classes, suggesting that the most attractive opportunities may lie outside of mainstream, crowded trades.

▶The Obsolescence of Traditional Value InvestingApr 2026

Wagner claims that simplistic value investing strategies that worked in the past, like buying stocks with low price-to-book ratios, have failed over the last 10-12 years. He attributes this to the rapid pace of technological disruption, which has permanently impaired many legacy businesses.

This indicates a necessary evolution for value investors, who must now focus more on qualitative factors, business model durability, and specific catalysts for value realization rather than relying on static valuation metrics.

Source episodes

Timeline

Early 1990s

Wagner describes a period when a common and highly profitable distressed debt strategy was buying companies at two times cash flow.

Approx. 2010-2012

According to Wagner, this period marks the beginning of the underperformance of traditional value investing strategies based on cheap metrics.

2014-2015

The Japanese government under Shinzo Abe introduced corporate stewardship and governance codes, which Wagner identifies as the starting point for the country's major corporate reform trend.

Fall 2022

Hurricane Ian hits Florida, causing nearly $50 billion in insured losses and triggering a significant repricing of risk in the reinsurance market, creating an opportunity Wagner highlights.

2023

Finepoint Capital analyzed and ultimately passed on investing in the distressed Chinese property sector, deeming the risks related to government dependency and opaque accounting to be unknowable.

Summer 2025

Wagner states that as of this period, his firm Finepoint Capital's exposure to the credit markets is at a historic low due to unattractive market conditions.

Suggested prompts

How does Herb Wagner differentiate between companies genuinely implementing governance reforms in Japan versus those engaging in 'box-ticking'? &nearr;What specific market signals or economic indicators is Wagner monitoring to time his firm's re-entry into the credit markets? &nearr;How does Wagner's thesis on reduced dealer capital and market illiquidity inform his position sizing and risk management for opportunistic trades? &nearr;Beyond Japan, what other markets does Wagner believe are ripe for activist-style investing driven by governance improvements? &nearr;

Key concepts

Japanese Equities 1 ep Corporate Governance Reform 1 ep Credit Markets 1 ep Reinsurance 1 ep Value Investing 1 ep Market Liquidity 1 ep Geopolitical Risk 1 ep Distressed Investing 1 ep Private Credit 1 ep

Notable quotes

“The government, I tell people, is the biggest activist investor in Japan.”

Herb Wagner · Herb Wagner - Opportunistic Value at Finepoint Capital (EP.460)

“I am very excited about the credit opportunity set for the next three to five years.”

Herb Wagner · Herb Wagner - Opportunistic Value at Finepoint Capital (EP.460)

“the dealer community in credit has capitals down by 90 plus percent over the last 15 years or so.”

Herb Wagner · Herb Wagner - Opportunistic Value at Finepoint Capital (EP.460)

“if you underwrite a risk that has a one in 10 chance of happening, historically that would get priced that you get paid 15 or 20% to take that risk. So that number is over 50%.”

Herb Wagner · Herb Wagner - Opportunistic Value at Finepoint Capital (EP.460)

Report last updated: Apr 21, 2026

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