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Notion’s Ivan Zhao: The Refounder, Sonic AI
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Notion’s Ivan Zhao: The Refounder
Brian Halligan's Podcast
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May 21, 2026
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1:02:59
Interview
Notion’s Ivan Zhao: The Refounder
From
Brian Halligan's Podcast
Ivan Zhao
(Co-founder and CEO, Notion, guest)
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Executive Summary
Notion is radically restructuring itself to become an "AI-native" company, moving away from traditional SaaS organizational models and planning cycles.
The company's philosophy is guided by the mantra of being a "jazz band, not a marching band," emphasizing adaptability, individual talent, and blurred roles in the AI era.
CEO Ivan Zhao champions the concept of "re-founding," having restarted the company from near-failure in Kyoto in 2015 and again with a focus on AI in 2023.
Notion is implementing unconventional talent strategies, including a "barbell" hiring model, highly meritocratic compensation, and eliminating the traditional CMO organization.
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